Talk:Navigation


 * James 05:29, 9 September 2008 (PDT): This page started life as all the links from the current front page that are not in the Proposed Front Page. My intention is to organise it using headings and subheadings, but not try to give it a clean 'box layout'.  I think it is OK this being a long page with lots of textual explanation.  For example we explain what a forum is here, and we explain what a FAQ is here.  I don't think it's appropriate to give such an explanation on the front page, but it is fine to do so here.
 * Gale: Sorry James, I have very little sympathy with this page as it is now. If people were confused when they got here, they will be more so after reading this.
 * We don't have to give a dictionary definition of a Forum on the front page but it needs to say more there than "Forum". To do otherwise is arrogant IMO.
 * As for this page, are we addressing ourselves or users? "Navigation" as a title? "Some alternative approaches"? "Faster track"? We should not be telling the users things are off-topic and hard to classify.
 * A cleaner box layout seems to me exactly what it does want, at least say have the "Useful recommendation" and non-catalogue material in boxes with the catalogue itself moved up and less "spread" vertically. Needs a lot of work, as I think it's harder to use than the current front page. Probably this is an opportunity to look at the Index as I think there is stuff there both to be got rid of/amalgamated and to be categorised/put here if you agree this page should be as comprehensive as possible. So it's like the Index, but themed rather than alphabetized.
 * Also I think strongly that material for "frequent contributors" aka "Wiki Watchers" should be on the front page.


 * James 14:09, 9 September 2008 (PDT): Gale, you're very welcome to hack about on this page and show me what you think it should be. I think anything in the top 200 pages is a candidate to be added here, but I don't think we need to be truly comprehensive.  There is always some dross on a wiki because there is always some work in progress.  I don't think we need to put anything 'for developers' here.  So that might call for a page title change.  Developers are savvy enough about a wiki that they will be able to get where they need to get to from the 15 developer links on the front page.  That and the 'top 200' criterion may help keep this page within manageable bounds.
 * Gale: Probably you're right about "maximum 200", but again it depends how this page evolves. We may have to trim well below 200, and arrange things so you can link to a page that is "like" what you are looking for, and get to the link you want from that page.
 * Even "developers" might come here thinking this was some kind of Index. If this only for users, why not have a link to this in the Users section?
 * James: That gives me an idea... Suppose each of the three main sections of the Proposed Front Page has a link at the bottom right of the section box to take you to a fuller index for that section?  That allows us to keep the sections on the front page compact yet still have plenty of links and explanation on the section index pages?
 * James (Update): For Developer's Documentation I linked to Category:For Developers. Suppose for each of the three sections we link to category pages for navigation/index?  That way we keep the lists in alphabetical order and up-to-date automatically?  It would mean a new category Category:For Users and Category:Beyond Audacity.
 * Gale: If we have even 150 links, I'm really struggling to see how we organise them without an awful lot of work. One way might be to actually use our current categories, and if the categories aren't helpful, change the categories.
 * James: The troublesome one is the tutorials and tips. Distinguishing on the basis of the 'size' of the tip (small=tip, big=tutorial) isn't a terribly useful categorisation.  Possibly more useful is classifying based on how far the user has got - Getting-Started-Tutorials (including I couldn't download Audacity), General-Tutorials (for people who are getting on OK with Audacity), and Power-User-Tutorials (Build-your-own-studio).
 * To me, all bar the Google suggestion in "Useful Recommendation" is duplication, or at least, verbose. Why would people want to see Forum/FAQ/Tutorials again, if they've seen it at the top of the Front page and troubled to go right down to the bottom? Are you planning to link to this page from somewhere else, other than the automatic link in the Index?
 * James: I was responding to your comments that newbies don't know what a FAQ or a Forum are and your comment that the Forum is the right place for most people who are not finding what they want. Hence the 'repetition'.  If you want to tighten the wording without losing the sense, that's fine by me.  If the link to this page is at the foot of the user section on Proposed Front Page, (and the title adjusted) then does that work?  What should happen is users who skipped over FAQ and Forum because they don't know what a FAQ or Forum are click and find out, meanwhile those who want some other way to search get to see the additional 'Alternative Approaches'.
 * IMHO we definitely don't need Troubleshooter if you want to persevere with this page and see where it takes us. I think Troubleshooter is FAQ material anyway, but to the extent it isn't, I think it's duplicating this page.
 * I'd love to see it being completely obviated by a classification of the tutorials or some structuring within the FAQ.