Talk:Proposal: Improvements to Scrubbing - Phase-3
Bug 1423 - a familiar scrub
I think there are better solutions to the problem of doing a single scrub or single seek than the solution proposed in Bug 1423. Swapping the gestures will just mean that seeking (rather than scrubbing) now has to be explicitly cancelled, e.g. with ESC.
The design problem is that there are FOUR modes:
- - A single seek session which ends.
- - A single scrub session which ends.
- - Alternating seek-and-scrub sessions, which can end.
- - Alternating scrub-and-seek sessions, which can end.
Instead of having both a seek button and a scrub button we could have a single button that is either seek or scrub. A drag that starts in the scrub ruler (i.e the strip under the QP timeline) initiates scrubbing or seeking depending on the state of that button. When we mouse up, the scrubbing or seeking ends. This gives us 1 and 2.
- Peter 13Aug16: Overnight thinking:
- The logical place for such a single button would be the Transport Toolbar (or later as one of your multi-buttons)
- We could dispense with the Scrub Bar altogether - when Scrubbing/Seeking is active then the Timeline belongs to the Scrubbing and Quick-Play is inhibited. When Scrubbing/Seeking is inactive then the Timeline belongs to Quick-Play.
- James 13Aug16: There are many possible choices. I don't think that button merits being Transport Toolbar button in size. I'd have preferences "enable scrubbing", "enable seeking". If either are enabled, the scrub ruler (i.e. the strip under the QP timeline) shows. If both are enabled, the scrub/seek button shows too. If the scrub/seek button is present, it's on the timeline, beside the pinned/unpinned button. There is room. The scrub toolbar (the one that held three buttons) is gone, and there's no little ruler button anymore as the scrub ruler presence is controlled by the "enable scrubbing" and "enable seeking" preferences.
- Peter 13Aug16: Hmmm, preferences like that would work a treat for me. Would you have the default for both be "off" or "on" - I would choose "off" - but probably we want "on" for discoverabilty. It would be good to have a right click menu on the buttons to be able to turn them off too I'm thinking. I like the idea of putting the button in the Timeline above the TCP alongside the pinned/unpinned head button. I'm not clear what you mean by "scrub time-strip shows" is that just the Timeline (and in which case with scrub or seek enabled then Quick-Play would be inaccessible) or is is something new? Or is it the Scrub Bar by a different name just managed by the presence or absence of the Scrub/Seek buttons, with no separate Scrub Bar button (I like that idea).
- Gale 13Aug16: 1423 is P4, so not mandatory to address it now, though the reason it's there is that some (many?) users will never buy into our scrubbing unless a technique familiar from other apps is available. The suggested changes seem quite major. If no Scrub Bar, how do we give people something tactile to drag? I understood from Paul that people may want to switch on the fly between seeking and scrubbing, so that might be a consideration. I'm really asking if this is for 2.1.3 now, in which case I'll have to read and think about this properly, and probably bug 1423 should be P3 and invite some sort of user feedback in the release note?
- James 13Aug16 Gale: These ideas (single scrub/seek button etc) are NOT for 2.1.3. Peter: I've clarified wording.
A shortcut key can change the state of the button, and we can do that in-flight. This gives us 3 and 4. We also have a preference option that allows mouse-up-and-down in the scrub ruler to change the button state from seek-to-scrub or vice versa. That gives another way to switch modes in flight using mouse, which might be more convenient. When we eventually finish such a sequence (e.g. by mouse up outside the scrub ruler) the scrub/seek button reverts to our preferred starting state (seek or scrub).
With this scheme (as described so far) we never have to ESC out of a scrub or seek. In my own flow I would probably be only using seeking, and it would work well for that. The design does also support those users who want to alternate scrubbing and seeking. I think this is enough. I don't think we need more (the RSI free variant).
Gale has in the past stressed the importance (to RSI) of scrub (item 3) being possible without mouse down. I personally disagree. I think the mouse up modes are unhelpful, and they run the risk of trapping users in a state which they might not know to SPACE or ESC out of (though the stop button will help). However we can do the RSI free version too:
For RSI free operation, we have a preference. If set, you have to click and release in the scrub bar to initiate scrubbing or seeking. Now scrubbing or seeking will continue until you explicitly end it, e.g by ESC or a click outside the scrubbing bar. You can switch from RSI free seeking to RSI free scrubbing (or vice versa) using the state shortcut, or by clicking-releasing in the scrubbing bar.
This scheme puts scrubbing and seeking on the same footing. It is easy to do one-off seeking or scrubbing. It is easy to chain them, starting from either. RSI free operation (if it is wanted) is available for both seeking and scrubbing, not just for one or the other.
- Extending that idea we could combine scrub and seek into a single gesture whereby when short playback is slow when long the scrub changes to seek rather than just a pure speed change. You can't make sense of scrubbed audio when going faster that 2-2.5x at best.
- And I do like the idea of having to hold down the left mouse fror scrub/seek and that relealsing it then stops the scrub/seek - nice and simple, no chance of "getting stuck".
Reduced physical effort to use scrubbing - Phase-3
Gale: No-one else seems to care about this, but I want to go back to a previous place and hear from there with less physical effort than now. I want an option to never stop when the playhead reaches the pointer, or to be able to click to resume play when that happens. An option for forwards play only is one possible solution. There is a discussion of this at http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?p=286530#p286530.
Playing through the Scrub
1) Gale wrote above: "I want to go back to a previous place and hear from there with less physical effort than now."
- Peter 11Aug16: this is relatively straightforward but only if you are using the Scrub Bar. With the Scrub Bar yon easily select where to start scrubbing from and then you can slide the widget along the Scrub Bar, click again and Scrubbing moves to start from there.
- Gale 14Aug16: Unfortunately the same problem remains. You have to move the pointer yourself after the click at the new point in Scrub Bar. Yes you can click in the Timeline, but then you are out of Scrub. As you say, you can't move the scrub point by clicking in the waveform, but that is (rightly) so because we allow changing the selection in the waveform when Scrub is active.
2) Gale wrote above: "I want an option to never stop when the playhead reaches the pointer, or to be able to click to resume play when that happens."
- Peter 11Aug16: This is relatively easy to achieve now that the cursor position moves to the current scrun point when scrubbing is stopped. Simply make a single click on the Play button in the transport toolbar - or make two presses on the spacebar (one to stop scrubbing, the other to start Play).
- Gale 14Aug16: The whole point of this request, which Robert J.H. also supports, is for continuous playback, so you can hear the context following the place of interest.